Wikibooks:Simple talk/Archives/2006

Please do not post any new comments on this page. This is a discussion archive first created in 2006, although the comments contained were likely posted before and after this date. See current discussion or the archives index.

The bar float on the picture

http://img342.imageshack.us/img342/4195/wikibook010by.png —This unsigned comment was added by 219.94.80.91 (talk • contribs) 03:39, 21 December 2005.

This is a bug. I noticed your unusual browser, that may be part of the reason. You can switch browsers, or you can report it at Wikipedia:Bug report —This unsigned comment was added by 45thuser (talk • contribs) 01:53, 28 May 2006.

apache language

Hello

My name is Dee Runningdeer. I am newly married to an Apache from Norman Oaklahoma. I would like to make him proud of me and would love to learn his language, but he does not have the patients to teach me. Can you help? Please e-mail at runningdeer1@peoplepc.com Hopefully you can put me on the right track. —This unsigned comment was added by 207.69.137.29 (talk • contribs) 04:08, 6 January 2006.

Well it probably won't be easy, but having someone you can talk to as you learn words and practice pronunciation will be helpful. First you're going to have to determine exactly what variety you need to learn. You could spend time learning a language someone else would call Apache, but it might not be the one your husband would know, so check first. The English Wikipedia has a few articles that will be helpful for background for you. See Southern Athabascan languages, which is the academic term for the language group. The article itself is written from a very technical standpoint and may not be very helpful, but read it anyway to pick up what you can. Try following the links at the end of the article. It also has a very extensive list of books in a separate page, if you can get some of those they may help. See also the article Apache for an overview. You can also ask the same question on the language's discussion page, and the contributors there may be able to help you. Finally, try simply contacting your husband's tribal groups to ask what they're recommendation would be. They would likely be very interested in helping to preserve the language, so that's probably your best bet, but reading those articles might help too. (btw, I'll try to email this when I get a chance, but if someone wants to beat me to it, just let me know). —This unsigned comment was added by 64.141.128.189 (talk • contribs) 16:17, 6 January 2006 (UTC).[reply]

Why so little progress?

Why is there so little progress here? Are there very strict standards for pages, or can I just stick down some very basic stuff? Archer7 11:48, 25 February 2006 - SE Wikipedia (now User:Archer7 here)

Feel free to write some basic stuff (obviously in simple English). There aren't strict standards (though we do try to follow the Book/Chapter format, rather than Book:Chapter), there just are very few active contributors here. If you're interested in contributing actively, welcome to SE Wikibooks! --Cromwellt 20:41, 7 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to add guidelines; I already made one. --45thuser 01:15, 28 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Algebra Wikibook on regular English Wikibooks

I am recommending that the authors of this Wikibook move the content here. I guess the question is, do you want it? Apparently there is a small group of multiple contributors that are willing to get this going, and it is going to more than double the size of this project if it is moved here. Certainly this is going to bring in some outside contributors to the Simple English Wikibooks project, and give it justification for existance, especially given the environment on Meta for killing projects like this.

As a side note, I was also thinking out loud and suggesting that perhaps on en.wikibooks we could set up a "bookshelf" that would link to the Wikibooks on this site. The purpose here is mainly to "advertise" some of these Wikibooks in a forum that English speakers would already be perhaps looking for content like this. It certainly couldn't hurt. Apparently the author of this Wikibook didn't even know about the Simple English Wikibooks at all, nor did a very likely candidate for the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees (and somebody very active with en.wikipedia). The only reason I know about this Wikibook is because it was brought up on the en.wikibooks Staff Lounge. --Robert Horning 11:12, 19 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I strongly recommend keeping that content, and indeed all Simple English content, on the main English Wikibooks project. The main English Wikibooks project has the advantage of higher traffic and greater visibility among other Wikimedia projects, and Simple English texts can sit there happily amongst the non-Simple English ones, jguk

That seems somewhat impractical in the correct application of Simple English in this case. The subject, being highly abstract, is proving hard for many to write in Simple English. If it were here, there would be support from those who have greater expressive control while using Simple English. --Chemica 05:03, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Geometry is a difficult subject to convey in Simple English, but Algebra is not. First level ESL (English as a Second Language) students are typically put in Algebra 1 classes as their first "mainstreaming" experience in school in LAUSD. Robert Horning is right; I didn't know that Simple English Wikibooks existed. I think that Simple English Wikibooks is a good place for us because we will be surrounded by others trying to write in simple english. --HSTutorials 21:32, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Need for resolution of the moving idea for Algebra 1 in Simple English

I am scheduled to give my first major presentation about Algebra 1 in Simple English to the California Mathematics Council - North Conference in December, and will probably make an informal announcement about it to LAUSD math teachers in September or October. It would be destructive to the project to not have a permanent home for the book by then. I want to make sure I understand people's arguments for and against, so I'm going to paraphrase them to see if I do.

The reasons for keeping it in Regular English Wikibooks:

More traffic and visibility

The reasons for moving it to Simple English Wikibooks:

It is a Simple English Wikibook
There are resources there to aid in writing in Simple English

Because I am driving my own traffic to write the book (through my presentations at math and computer education conferences), the added visibility at Regular English Wikibooks does not seem important. Furthermore, I think the teachers who will be contributing, and their fellow teachers of other subjects, will have a lot to contribute to all the Simple English Wiki's.

Therefore, I'm convinced that it should be moved to the Simple English Wikibooks site, provided there are links to the old site. I cannot make the change myself, though. I need your help. Please contact me to let me know what I need to do to make this change happen.--HSTutorials 18:23, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to point out a few things. #1, en:User:Jguk does not speak for and in behalf of the users on en.wikibooks, nor does he even speak on behalf of the admins on en.wikibooks. His is but one opinion to consider, and a relatively new admin at that who has been noted to make major changes on en.wikibooks without any sort of community concensus. I will also note that he and I seldom see eye to eye on many issues, so it isn't surpiring that I have a nearly diametrically opposed view on this issue as well.

I would point out that traffic and visibility issues I would consider to be irrelevant as there are many parts of en.wikibooks that don't get that much traffic either. And I would support indexing Simple English Wikibooks content into the Wikibooks Card Catalog Office including with the various subcats and bookshelves. As a seperate Wikimedia project, I think this would get even more traffic coming here than to en.wikibooks. There is no technical reason that would keep traffic away from here.

The most important reason to move the content here is that it is intended to be written in Simple English, where various standards for writing in this language subset can be more easily enforced. I have been a very vocal opponent to this projects deletion, and feel that it would be in the best interest of this project to move over the Algebra I materials here as well. I have offered to do this, but it is going to take a little bit of time. Please be patient, and know that I don't intend to delete any of this content. --Robert Horning 17:35, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the reassurance, Robert!--HSTutorials 22:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to add my opinions here also, though I have previously mentioned them on meta:Proposals for closing projects. I think that jguk is going about things backwards trying to take our content to EWB. We are a separate project, and we should be: we are definitely NOT Wikijunior, as it says on the Main Page, nor are we just another English WB. We are a Wikibooks with a particular, separate audience with particular, separate needs. To fulfill those needs for that audience is our goal here. Moving our content to EWB would be counterproductive to our audience in several ways, including those mentioned by Robert Horning in his well-thought-out comment above. Thanks for that, Robert. I think you're right that adding a reference to this project on a bookshelf over there, and indexing us also, would be good for us. As an admin on this project, feel free to contact me regarding any questions, doubts, comments, compliments (:D), etc. you might have. I am a bit more active on SEWiktionary and some on SEWP (where I've fought Netoholic for some time to keep these other simple English projects open, especially SEWikt), but I try to at least visit here periodically. If you can't get ahold of me here, you can try there, or please feel free to email me. Happy editing and writing! --Cromwellt|talk|contribs 05:12, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi... responding here to a comment on en.wikibooks study help desk. Moving the book would be something done from this end, not that one, because en.wikibooks does not have Special:Export enabled for this or any other wiki. If Special:Import is enabled on simple.wikibooks, your local admins should be able to do it. If import is not enabled, you'll need to either open a bugzilla request, or just transwiki the old fashioned way using copy-paste, and leave a link on the talk page to the contribution history on en.wikibooks.

Special:Import is a much nicer way to go, but it might be overtaxing on your admin staff, since you apparently only have two administrators. --SB_Johnny|^talk|_books 13:58, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]